Shooting at Bubbles - Latest Comments in Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

Quotes — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:02:32 -0000

Thanks for the interesting post, I appreciate it!

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

AdamSinger — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:51:55 -0000

Great thoughts Steven. Social media is best when people use it to talk about things OTHER THAN social media. That's when it gets interesting :)

Being meta too long will drive you insane.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

warzabidul — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 07:46:00 -0000

I agree with part of what you're saying about friendship. That's one of the reasons I'm so frustrated with twitter in particular. There's not much we can do. It won't change overnight.

I think we need a shift away from computers towards mobile phones at an affordable price. That's when we'll see the biggest shift in attitude.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

AJ Kohn — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:44:22 -0000

Exactly. The numbers. The race. The competition. They're just inane. Content, value, discourse. That's, as the say, the ticket.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

StevenHodson — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:34:43 -0000

meta masturbation - Love it!

but you are right as long as we are more concerned with numbers rather than value given and received much of this is pointless.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

AJ Kohn — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:31:10 -0000

In general I think Social Media is a lot of meta masturbation and ego preening.

I have over 1,000 Twitter followers! I have 500+ connections on LinkedIn! Friends galore on Facebook. What's my Twitter Rank? What are my FFHolic stats?!?

Most social media seems designed to reinforce our basic need of self-worth. That somebody out there cares what we think. That someone is listening. For some it will be a way to connect with others which isn't a bad thing really. But I'm not sure how long this type of echo chamber and mirror-mirror on the wall mentality will last.

But there are aspects of Twitter (small but there) and FriendFeed which I believe serve a purpose beyond the normal social media platforms. They're about harnessing data and delivering information.

Twitter does a poor job of the latter and really is about promoting data, not harnessing data. To me, FriendFeed (and Google Reader for that matter) are simple data flows with various filtering techniques that allow me to shape the data into digestible chucks of information.

I get value back. I learn. I become smarter. Hopefully I pass some of it on as well.

Some of that is social in nature because it's part of the data flow. And the annotation of the data (via comments) is also 'social' in nature and, as such, can be mined separately.

Whether you call it Social Media then or not ... well, that's up for grabs.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

Mark Dykeman — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:33:52 -0000

Great series of conversations around this post.

I certainly became hypersensitized to the RT after encountering Twitalizer and even got sucked in to that rat race a bit. When I ask myself "why, where's the benefit?" I can't find any concrete benefit to my offline life.

Social media in general could, in theory, broaden your network and help you to showcase your talents to other people who can appreciate them. But there are limits.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

StevenHodson — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:56:37 -0000

thanks for this .. it has helped solidify a thought or two in my head and I'll be doing up a post in this regard this evening sometime

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

Gail Gardner — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:44:11 -0000

Every system is only as beneficial and ethical as those who use it. Yes, every day I block several "get-rich-quick" Twitter accounts most likely put up by someone who fell for a long sales page as "the" way to instant wealth.

And as Hutch mentions it isn't that easy for anyone who is not already famous to use Twitter to reach a massive audience. Much of the time it is more like Tweeting into a vacuum, rarely knowing how many we're reaching and of those how many care.

Webomatica is correct that often "we" are creating value that corporations later usurp. That is why I am always ready to move on when my favorite Social Networking site (and any other independent service I use) is bought out.

That is why I keep hoping that one Social Media site will finally stay independent, do it right, and give Google a run for their money. In the meantime we can do what we can. Personally, I use them to benefit anyone who chooses to listen.

Using Social Media provides these benefits:

1) Driving more traffic to my blog and the sites of others I share.
2) Exchanging strategies, knowledge, and resources with those who have exceptional talents in specific areas.
3) Finding the best blogs, joining their communities and recommending them to others.
4) Using search at Twitter and FriendFeed for research and to replace what I might have once used a search engine to find.
5) Twitter CAN be very effective at times. Remember the Mommy bloggers versus Motrin and the numerous times that Tweets have nearly instantly raised money for a good cause?

What is somewhat disppointing:
1) The number of answers (even though according to Twinfluence I'm at 99% and in the top 400 users at Twitter)
2) Obtaining any kind of response to anything I sincerely recommend
3) The number of bloggers who reciprocate by retweeting, sharing, or commenting - especially when it is obvious who invest much time and effort in repeatedly sharing THEIR work across Social Media sites.

It is not always obvious whether what we do is effective. Often responses are few and far between which is why I make it a point to encourage people and wish others would too. It doesn't take that much time to RT at Twitter, add a Like at FriendFeed or leave a comment in a blog post.

All of those things benefit the person who does them too. If you don't know how check out my latest post and another one you can find by searching on "pay it forward" using the search function at the top of the right sidebar in my blog (which EVERY blog should have).

I really wish the public would differentiate between sharing information about quality products and services we use, small businesses trying to reach us, and corporations advertising AT us when they don't care what we think and usually don't even pretend to respond.

Social Networks would benefit us more if we would actively use them to change our everyday actions. We could use them to learn how to grow gardens and find quality small, local and online businesses to support. If everyone bought from their neighbors and the best ecommerce stores online instead of corporations the world would quickly be a very different place.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

StevenHodson — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 19:24:23 -0000

But hutch look for a minute at who is promoting things like retweeting like it's the next page rank for social media. The majority aren't the one's who earn an income from advertising but rather from those who already have the name power and their faithful minions. The chances of either you or I having the depth of reach of the retweeting pump and dump is next to nil compared to an O'Reilly, Scoble, or Arrington/Techcrunch retweeting run.

Our interactions with readers on the other hand is something we build up over time and as the conversation becomes more and more splintered it becomes harder for us to ride any momentum forward.

Your second part though shows what I have been trying to say about our own niche communities being held together by Social Media glue or communication pathways. Regardless of what the tools are or what the marketers are pushing your community of e2.0 would survive quite nicely without the social media hype and retweeting silliness. It would survive because you have the larger Social Media ethos that fluidly binds you together for as long as you need it to. Your Social Media involvement through your e2.0 niche doesn't have to deal with the irritations of the social media white noise and therefor is far more beneficial to those in those niche communities.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

warzabidul — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:57:25 -0000

And that's why I love feedly so much. With feedly I can see all friendfeed, twitter and other conversation sites in one place and when I press the conversation tab I can see who conversed about it and if it split then I can select which of the conversations I'm most interested in following. Of course at the moment it doesn't have that many users but within a short amount of time that may be the most interesting option of all.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

Hutch Carpenter — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:27:59 -0000

I know where you're coming from on this Steven. I get the "to what end" aspect of social media. I'm of the belief that each of us makes it useful in our own ways. Would I love to have 50 Likes and comments for everything I post on FriendFeed? A bazillion retweets on Twitter? Sure! Why not? But what I've seen is that maintaining a high level of interaction is required for that, or having existing renown outside of the services. For most of us, that's just not happening. But then you have to ask yourself...how important is that, really? At least for white-collar professionals who aren't gunning for advertising revenue on their sites, these popularity metrics aren't so critical.

What *has* worked for me is leveraging social media to improve my knowledge and connections for a specific field. Professionally, I'm part of the enterprise 2.0 sector. I'm making a lot of connections there, and I've been pleasantly surprised how well tracking social media for e2.0 has helped me. The opinions, information and connections among different people have made me a lot smarter for my job. I've met some great people online in this way.

To paraphrase the Stones, you can't always get what you want, but sometimes you get what you need.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

StevenHodson — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:06:18 -0000

I guess by my questioning post that started this - and more to come - I am much like you Jason - disillusioned with social media - that being the tools and services. But I haven't yet given up on the larger idea of Social Media. The tools don't make the movement - they are just the ways we move through it all. The tools and services can easily be bastardized to make the toolmakers rich I just hope they don't have the power to pervert the movement.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

StevenHodson — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:00:19 -0000

I have felt for some time that there are actually two different ideals we are talking about when we use a buzzword like social media.

The first is - Social Media - and that at its roots is the movement to make the Web as a whole useful and available to everyone regardless of social or economic position. It is this Social Media that is the groundswell that could make changes within our society in ways that we can't even understand or foresee at this point.

The second is - social media - which is nothing more than the tools and services that make mass marketing more palatable because we are under the illusion that these services and marketers want to be able to talk with us when in reality all it is is just another way to pat us on the head making us believe that we are a part of the business.

I have begun to wonder if Social Media is really just nothing more that the glue and communication pathways that connect the personal community we all are creating around ourselves - our name - our brand. Through that glue or communication pathways we are able to create transient larger communities as they are needed and for as long as they are needed. In his book CauseWired Tom Watson uses the the term flash causes

Then there are the flash causes - quick and fast-moving drives to organize people online to take action, in response to a disaster or news story, for example.

I would suggest that possibly when we talk about Social Media this it the type of thing we are really looking at. Niche communities that spring up around a powerful voice - or idea - and this is transmitted through the Social Media glue or pathways and as it finds similar people or ideas the community grows bigger until the time comes where they splinter back off once again to their core community.

On the other hand all these social media services and tools might allow for us to utilize the Social Media pathways to communicate with each other but they are not what makes up the whole of Social Media - they are just the tools and the marketing engine.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

shonzilla — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:36:09 -0000

I'm not implying that politics is the general field for applying internet litmus tests... political marketing slows down significantly after elections in other media as well anyway. As most everyone on Twitter know this was most visible at: http://twitter.com/barackobama

I've used the US presidential elections as a reference and turning point in the timeline of social media when many more people started using it, got involved in it and many stayed involved after having realized the potential/immediacy of the medium. In my view, the US presidential elections were the beachhead for the penetration of social media (to reuse the marketing lingo).

Cheers!
Shonzilla

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

Webomatica — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:02:14 -0000

I've been increasingly disillusioned with all things social media. New tools, sure, but it's just being used and abused in the same old ways, since more than any technology, it's reliant on the people behind it to serve any purpose.

My most cynical thought is the "benefits" are being touted by corporations as being good for the user, when really what they're up to is profiting off of our information and cheap labor. The hippie information wants to be free thing only goes as far as getting users on board en masse, then later we all get sold up the river to the highest bidder.

Personally all I use it for anymore is entertainment - a great way to waste time when I need a break from getting actual work done. I don't take social media seriously which means I enjoy it a lot more.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

Gail Gardner — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:01:13 -0000

The reason it takes so long to get minimal benefit from Social Networking is that none of the popular Social Media sites are providing content in an easily usable form. StumbleUpon almost did it right before they were acquired and then got rid of the most valuable content they had!

What SU had was pages based on keyword tags. Each tag had a page that showed the most popular shared sites for that tag based on clicks, reviews, and readers voting them up. It also showed the users who shared the most valuable content on that subject.

IF you knew how to get to those pages (it wasn't that obvious) you could quickly and easily find the most knowledgeable users on that subject. Say you had questions about Ubuntu - you could go to the Ubuntu page and find the most valuable resources about it AND connect with someone who could answer specific questions.

THAT is what Social Networking is missing. Yes, there are search functions at Twitter and FriendFeed but that is not nearly as useful as using the power of computers to organize and present content in an easy to use way. The first Social Media site that finally gets that right will require far less time and give far more back!

When they do they will not only be an awesome resource for users - they will also provide what every small business needs and what will be their Golden Goose of monetization - a highly targeted niche audience. Ads there will convert and advertisers will line up to buy them. This is precisely how Google makes most of their money and how these sites should too!

I've posted about this in the past. You can see two posts in my blog or interact with me. Just search for monetization in the search box at the top of the right sidebar. I would love to provide input and beta testing for any Social Networking site heading in this direction. I have a clear idea what the ideal is because I have an extensive background in computers (since 1978), search, and ppc advertising (since 2003).

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

StevenHodson — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:54:51 -0000

Isn't hat what this whole thing called blogging suppose to be about? :)

sure I might get cranky and a little exuberant with my choice of language sometimes but I wouldn't give up these kind of opportunities to have conversations with smarter people than myslef - this is how we all learn after all.

Thank you for being a part of this conversation.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

StevenHodson — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:52:19 -0000

there was an interesting video interview that came out of SxSW (I'll do my best to track it down because I want to talk about something said in it) that basically said that we have been going through a radical splintering of the conversation over the last year or two but there is a growing movement to return to a single location for "continuous" conversation on given ideas or posts.

So instead of the conversation splintering the way it has across things like Twitter - FriendFeed - Facebook people are tried of getting lost in the splintered threads and wanting to be able to talk about the ideas and its outgrowths in one place.

This is something I am so looking forward to but it requires that the originators of the conversation - regardless of where they started the conversation - maintain their contact with conversation and be willing to reach out to those wanting to be involved.

We may have been sidetracked by the shininess of new conversation tools but I hope that this is right and we are return full circle back to the beginning - back to where the conversation started in the first place.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

StevenHodson — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:42:24 -0000

Here's an interesting personal fact.

I can count on one hand the number of people in real life who I would classify as friends. Those are the people who I may not see for months but the next time we cross paths it is like no time has passed and we know that if either of us in that small group needs help there is no questions of "do I have time" or "sorry but I have something more important to do". There is never a moment's hesitation - everything gets dropped and you help that friend out.

Now when it comes to my online life I have a wider circle of people who I would call friend in the same way. Many of them have come as a result of knowing each other for over ten year due to the WinExtra Community Forums - because that place in many ways is an extended family. When it comes to those I have met since taking a more public stance on the net and being involved in a larger community I wold say that once again I can count the number of people who I truly look upon as friends on two hands. They are people of totally different backgrounds and in some cases getting them in the same room would be like mixing gasoline and lit matches but I would have it no other way because they are my friends.

The rest of the people I come in contact with on the net are people I might find interesting and I can learn a lot from but that doesn't make them friends in the same sense as those above. But what I have found in this Social Media ecosphere is that there is no clear understanding of the difference anymore and it is only getting worse. Friends have indeed become a commodity that can be sold along with some social media service account.

I don't agree that the way we experience friendships have changed because true friendship isn't an experience - it is a part of our souls. Maybe the way we are experiencing acquaintances is changing - on that I would agree.

BTW as a side note - thank you very much for being a part of this conversation - you and the others in this thread have made what I originally wrote even more valuable and very interesting as well as thought provoking.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

StevenHodson — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:27:33 -0000

I wasn't trying to suggest that you had made such a claim Mike so my apologies if I gave that impression. My comment was about the wider Social Media ecosphere where the mavens and gurus of the movement propose that Social Media will lead to changes in the way our society interacts with each other and businesses.

I would be foolish to say that the Web hasn't changed our lives dramatically but the Web is not just Social Media. Social Media is only a small slice of the web and as of yet it's implications of change are still suspect.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

StevenHodson — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:22:53 -0000

you've hit on the one thing that I really haven't been able to grasp and that is this supposed value that re-tweeting is suppose to have. The idea that a person's authority is increased by the fact that people want to play the re-tweeting game - because as far as I can tell this just seems to be yet another way to game the service.

I use both Twitter and FriendFeed but I do find the value for time spent much better on FriendFeed but even there name power plays a very big part of response per contribution.

But then this is what I am finding is the whole basis of Social Media - the name has the power and if you don't have the name / brand power your experience can border on mundane and useless.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

warzabidul — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:20:55 -0000

I know, that's why I want to filter out the re-tweet and certain tags. That's why I want to avoid talking with people that give formulaic answers rather than genuine ones. If I wasn't struggling with this idea I wouldn't have deleted my two year old twitter account.

I am on friendfeed at the moment precisely because I want to find a better, more involved of engaging with people. That's why I'm commenting on this blog post, among many others.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

warzabidul — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:17:48 -0000

I've been exploring the idea of friendship, in particular with twitter and I agree that a lot of people think of friendships as little more than a commodity. In the case where I see people are not engaging with me as deeply as I wanted them to I have unfollowed them. I have taken a lot of time to work on the friendships online.

It's the same with friendships offline. We meet people, we enjoy meeting them one or two more times and we go a different way. It's the same thing in the internet and twitter age but with a difference. Here there is a backlog of past friendships and relationships.

How many of the phone numbers on your mobile phone do you still use for example? 10-15. Of the friends you have on facebook how many have you known for years? How many of them will you see again?

Friendships have not changed in nature. The way we experience them has.

I hate the "I'm followed by three thousand people and following two thousand". I really do think that notion is a silly one. I no longer engage with those people. As a group we need to find the people that value us as much as we value them.

Re: Having a problem with all this Social Media crap

warzabidul — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:10:00 -0000

It depends where you live, in some cultures going down to the pub after a day of work is still very much part of the lifestyle. In England you do have the pub culture where you go out and you meet your friends, you network and you meet people in the real world.

All of these social media events are about just this thing, about meeting new people and making new friends that way. We've seen the pictures and the communications that take place after an event and we see how engaging it was. I say "was" because there has been a shift. As a lot of those I established good friendships with, in the real world, started to network more so they felt the need to follow more and more people, which is easy.

The moment when social media lose their value is when those you meet lose contact with you, are not willing to aknowledge that you've thought about what they're doing and reacted to that. It is quite evident on twitter for example. As more people join so the personal links are being diluted. Rather than retweet what people are saying why not converse about it instead.

Conversations are the way we used to follow up a blog post, a tweet and more. By conversing people were personally more engaged in the mediums they are using. It took both time and engagement. That engagement is what made it so interesting and pleasant to meet those people in person. It allowed a new friendship forming pattern. Of course that's still the case but the challenge is to find those people.

I don't disagree that it's a waste of time, but at the same time I'm fascinated by the idea that one day as more people use these tools so the ability to have more personal engagement will get better.

I find myself moving back to the long form today, through blogs, friendfeed and commenting to engage on a deeper level with people, to discuss ideas as much as anything. After all why not take a few minutes and discuss things through the written word? It's not a waste of time. It's a learning experience.

We are in the early days of all of these discussions and as a result the conversations are limited in scope, relevant only to a select few. That doesn't matter though. In three years time the landscape will be different. We will have conversations more relevant to our interests.

In summary it's a waste of time when people are part of a community, post something but never come back to see how the conversation has progressed. We don't need to do it instantly. With a blog post this conversation can afford to be discussed over a period of weeks and months, every few hours in some cases. We can go about our daily life.