Shooting at Bubbles - Latest Comments in I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

Bill — Thu, 22 May 2008 08:08:52 -0000

The conversation -requirement- makes using gmail useless for any serious or semi-serious business. Imagine sending a bulk mail to 300 customers and getting 80 replies back...All crammed into one 'conversation'... YUCK! Horrible horrible interface...sure, great for casual email here and there... and just hope you don't ever use the same subject-name in any email or it all gets rolled up into one big pile of crap. Please google, just have an option to turn
this ON or OFF.... can't be that hard?

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

BlueCockatoo — Mon, 19 May 2008 01:46:13 -0000

If you're still at all interested in using GMail, you can fix the bland UI if you use FireFox. Install Stylish (https://addons.mozilla.org/... and pick from the multitude of alternatives (http://userstyles.org/style....

Also, there's rumors on the intarnets that Google is going to be releasing GMail themes in the next few weeks.

I'm definitely a GMail fangirl. I went to great lengths writing a large VBA script to run in Outlook 2003 to make it work like GMail because my work wouldn't let me use GMail for corp mail. A lot of the features I was looking for can be tweaked into Outlook 2007 more easily but still, I'd rather use GMail than Outlook anyday.

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

andydavies — Thu, 15 May 2008 16:32:23 -0000

I get really frustrated with the labels vs folders argument as I don't see it as an either/or situation - why can't we have both?

Folders are really good for hierarchical organisation and cope with multiple levels of depth far better than labels do, but labels offer a different type of flexibility.

Although I use gmail for both my main email accounts, I'm still not completely happy with having to use only labels and would like folders too.

I'd also like search folders (I know I can do this with a greasemonkey extension) and the ability to see all unlabeled messages easily.

gmail is still a work in progress and sometimes that progress seems really slow...

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

Laurence — Wed, 14 May 2008 11:33:14 -0000

Hey good stuff... glad to see someone going against the flow! Haha, actually I agree, I really don't enjoy using Gmail much at all. The spam filtering is great, as are the services you can access with it, but the actual mail client I never use unless I have to.

To be honest I really like Windows Live Mail. I like the interface and it has all the features I need.

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

Jarred Taylor — Wed, 14 May 2008 09:40:58 -0000

Isn't that what Gmail is? Conversation view and tagging (another word for labels?). The only difference between labels and a folder structure is the lack of hierarchy, right?

And on your "delete" point -- there is a delete button and an archive button. Archive hides. Delete, as you put it, "deletes." Sure there is no option to permanently delete after each session, but why delete-delete when you'll never see it again and you have virtually limitless storage capacity?

On your UI point -- could anything be more boring than Outlook? And besides, I'd rather have a clean interface so as not to be distracted as I read my mail. Maybe the problem is that your mail it too boring to keep you entertained? :)

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

Jeffro2pt0 — Wed, 14 May 2008 05:11:59 -0000

Hey Steven. I have been hooked on Outlook Express for so long, people would flip out when I told them I used it for email. Finally, the day came when I gave Thunderbird a try and since it comes with the ability to import my settings from OE, I have never looked back. Thunderbird has been an awesome POP3 email client for me to use. I just can't seem to get myself to browse to a website and access gmail. I like the feeling of a desktop installed application to handle email instead of this cloud stuff.

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

dgw — Tue, 13 May 2008 21:53:32 -0000

"...and they actually listen to what people want."

I haven't seen an example of this recently. People have wanted the ability to turn off Conversation View, disable the auto-add-to-Contacts feature, and manually re-thread messages when the threading algorithm messes up since before I joined (in Spring of 2006). I would like the latter two options available, and have suggested them multiple times, but no amount of requests from me and all the other users has succeeded in getting those features added. Google listens to users if something is easy, like colored labels: Just rip off the Greasemonkey userscript that someone else wrote (I'm speculating; there has been no code analysis performed by me).

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

dgw — Tue, 13 May 2008 21:49:35 -0000

I guess it's a matter of preference. I like the labels (since I can add messages to multiple views) and the Googley UI. Are you referring to the actual "Delete" button when you say, "Delete means delete"? The delete button moves things to the trash just like Outlook or Thunderbird would, and gets rid of them completely in 30 days.

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

StevenHodson — Tue, 13 May 2008 21:21:03 -0000

Actually no I haven't I've been using the Conversation view. How's that work anyway? (always willing to try something new)

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

James — Tue, 13 May 2008 21:14:56 -0000

Have you tried Outlook 2007? I like the Categories feature.

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

Rahsheen — Tue, 13 May 2008 20:31:43 -0000

I think the main issue here is that many people equate email, files and folders to things in real life. IRL, you have papers everywhere. To organize these papers, you file them away. You file them in a specific way that will allow you to find them later.

In the electronic world, this just isn't necessary. You can simply archive/store whatever you want wherever you want on your computer or online and find it later just by doing a quick search.

This is akin to walking into your "office" and saying "2008 tax return" and it magically levitates out of a drawer somewhere. I'm sure if you could, you wouldn't care what drawer/folder you stored it in in the first place.

If you think of things this way, you see that tags and folders really have nothing to do with eachother. There is no direct comparison because in the GMail world....there ARE no folders.

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

Rahsheen — Tue, 13 May 2008 20:20:38 -0000

Not necessarily saying that tagging is better. Just saying I don't see the point of folders anymore because I can just search for what I want.

I have 2 tags I use for things I need to actually follow-up on, or things that I may need to hold onto for a minute (receipts, tracking codes, etc.).

It's not really a Tags vs. Folders, thing for me. it's just about getting things done and having a buch of folders or labels visible on my screen must mean these are things I am supposed to be taking care of. If I'm just filing things away...well....that's what the Archive feature is for.

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

Carly Matthews — Tue, 13 May 2008 20:09:44 -0000

That's just Gmail's terminology... "archive" means remove it from the inbox. It still remains unread, and the label will turn bold to alert you that it contains unread messages (with a number in parentheses to indicate how many), just like your Outlook folders.

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

webomatica — Tue, 13 May 2008 20:06:05 -0000

One thing I like nested folders for is I can visualize them easily, like expand a folder and see all the folders within. I get how you can have the same functionality with labels but that visual metaphor is lost. Perhaps I'm ingrained in the desktop metaphor of seeing files and folders, but I could also never imagine having a computer desktop with nothing but a search box or a tag cloud.

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

StevenHodson — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:54:04 -0000

That makes a lot of sense ... archive the mail before I've even read it

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

StevenHodson — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:51:02 -0000

I have tried TB on and off from when it was first available as a pre v1.0 release but never liked it. It almost got my me when it said 3.0 (IIRC) would have tagging support .. that turned out to be just another word for flags just as in Outlook

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

StevenHodson — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:44:04 -0000

Okay and how is that any different from being able to search selected folders for mail?

Don't get me wrong here I agree that labels per se have an attractive quality to them - I would suggest that proper tagging the kind that we are use to as bloggers or are used by services like Technorati is a much better implementation of the concept. What I don't agree with is this blind loyalty to a system that doesn't do anything really any different than a folder based mail client.

I believe that web mail clients have their place but they are not the panacea for all that is wrong with email that the loyal base of Gmail users think it is.

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

Phil Glockner — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:43:26 -0000

Have you tried a more 'traditional' client like Thunderbird? I actually preferred Thunderbird over Outlook for my work email.

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

Carly Matthews — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:39:08 -0000

You needed to also check the first action: "Skip the Inbox(Archive it)"

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

Benjamin Golub — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:30:01 -0000

Folders limit you to a strict structure (I suppose this might be a good thing if you don't trust Google's search capabilities). An email can't be placed in more than one folder (without duplicating it). Nested folders get ugly very quickly unless they are maintained. Nested labels can be accomplished easily and cleanly by just applying more than one label to an email and searching for all mail with both of those labels.

Just off the top of my head quickly. I <3 labels.

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

StevenHodson — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:19:04 -0000

And the ton are?

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

Benjamin Golub — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:03:45 -0000

What can folders do that labels can't? Seems to me that there are a ton of things that folders can't do but labels can but not much the other way around.

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

StevenHodson — Tue, 13 May 2008 19:01:03 -0000

I had the incoming mail filtered to specific labels as well and it worked but there were two labels one of which was the inbox label which had to be removed before the mail would disappear from the list .. too many steps to do a simple thing. The other thing I like about the "majority" of email clients is the three pane view with a preview of the mail .. Gmail doesn't have that so you literally have to open up the thread to read the mail .. again too many steps to do simple things

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

Carly Matthews — Tue, 13 May 2008 18:54:23 -0000

"With Outlook once the filters are setup it's all automatic --- mail comes in and gets shuffled of the folder I want it in."

I have several filters in Gmail which do just that, so yes, you must not have been doing it right. I'll agree that using the drop-down menu when manually labeling is a pain, and some drag-and-drop support would be nice. But that's another great thing about Gmail. It's constantly evolving, they're always adding new features, and they actually listen to what people want. They may even add an option for more frequent trash emptying if enough people request it.

Re: I tried really I did but Gmail still sucks

StevenHodson — Tue, 13 May 2008 18:52:03 -0000

Actually I don't like Outlook all that much and the only reason that I went back to using it was because for a period of time I was testing Xobni (before its public beta) and now I'm in there I am hesitant to go through the hassle of moving again to another client. I decided to try Gmail again because I really wanted to give it a fair shake as a viable alternative.

Personally I think all email clients suck donkey balls and in many cases are a detriment to productivity. I understand why Outlook became as popular as it has with the inclusion of all the calendaring and task list type stuff but I never use (at this point in time) those features.